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IMDB rating: 7.80 Plot: A Christlike figure wanders through bizarre, grotesque scenarios filled with religious and sacrilegious imagery. He meets a mystical guide who introduces him to seven wealthy and powerful individuals, each representing a planet in the solar system. These seven, along with the protagonist, the guide and the guide’s assistant, divest themselves of their worldly goods and form a group of nine who will seek out the Holy Mountain, in order to displace the gods who live there and become immortal. |
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Bible believers: What do you think was the chain of events regarding Satan's rebellion against God?
consider these passages
Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
Isaiah 14:12 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! 13 For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’
Ezekiel 28:13-15 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created. 14 "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. 15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.
Genesis 3:1-5 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?" 2 And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ " 4 Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
Did Satan first try to get humans to join him in his rebellion or had had he already fallen when he started a rebellion against God and got Angels to join him?
Ezekiel refers to the "anointed cherub" a cherub is not a human king. In Isaiah Lucifer is the "power" behind the evil kings. The serpent in Genesis 3 is identified as the Devil in Revelation 12.
1) What do you think was the chain of events regarding Satan’s rebellion against God?
Since the bible gives us no indication, I cannot imagine what they might have been. That’s sort of like asking someone what would they guess happened during the life of someone that they’ve never met or read about. For example: what do you think was the chain of events resulting in my moving from one state to another?
2) consider these passages
Gen 1:26 – does not mention Satan directly or indirectly
Isa 14:12 – ditto
Eze 28:13-15 – ditto
Gen 3:1-5 – well, **IF** we assume that this was Satan (and not a serpent as is claimed by the bible), all it tells us for sure is that Satan was operating on Earth at the time and that there is no indication here that "Satan" had fallen from Heaven. Indeed, considering that Satan appears much later (certainly after the Noadic flood) in Job and is able to travel freely between Heaven and Earth in that account, it would seem that even at that "late" date Satan had not yet been cast out of Heaven as described by Jesus.
So, really, you have to base the "chain of events" on passages that actually refer to Satan, passages that you did not reference. Satan was not "cast out" during the time of Job (though he may already have incurred lesser disfavor), and he was able to "contest" with "the angel of the Lord" in Zechariah chapter 3. It *is* interesting that Satan is not described as an angel in Zechariah. It may be that this vision was of a future event – but IF I were to hazard a guess, I would begrudgingly admit that it would seem as if Satan may have been in rebellion in the time of Zechariah.
Some claim that the contest over Moses’ body is evidence of Satan’s fall at a fairly early date: however, Job was almost certainly written long after the time of Moses and recounts a person living a settled life (clearly not a nomadic one) in the Promised Land. Linguistic analysis likewise places Job later than Moses – in fact, either very late in the Kingdom Period or more probably even *later*. If we judge that Satan was not "cast out" in Job, then we have to believe that this happened sometime late in the Kingdom Period or afterward, but possibly before the time of Zechariah.
Revelation mentions "Satan and his angels". The problem here is: is this passage speaking of *actual* angels – supernatural beings created as servants for God? Or is it speaking of **messengers** – the actual translation of the term "angels"? More: Revelation tells us plainly that those events are in the future of the author – proving that the "fall" of Satan in Revelation cannot be the same as the one that Jesus witnessed *unless* Jesus was speaking prophetically. Considering Satan’s actions in the New Testament, it would seem extremely likely that he had already fallen from Heaven before Jesus spoke of witnessing that event. Therefore, the answer to the question of Satan’s angels is only more questions:
* are we speaking of supernatural beings or messengers?
* is there any evidence that Satan seduced other angels to follow him (instead of God) earlier than the time of Revelation?
* Revelation speaks of Satan enlisting humans in his rebellion against God, but this is clearly apocalyptic – by which I mean, an event that occurs in our future. We know that Satan attempted to enlist the ultra-powerful Jesus – but other than that, has he ever actually made an attempt (in the bible) to enlist human followers *prior* to the time of Revelation?
The answer is that the bible tells us next to nothing about the fall of Satan or of any **existing** (as opposed to **future**) following of supernatural angels.
Jim, http://www.bible-reviews.com
http://www.bible-reviews.com | Nov 18, 2009
According to religious beliefs.. which are bullshit… God made him. he couldnt rebel against the way he was designed. duh!
invest$$$ | Nov 18, 2009
Satan never rebelled.
IronMan of Rome | Nov 18, 2009
Does anyone actually read these long questions and bible quotes?
Touched by his noodly appendage | Nov 18, 2009
I think God revealed the Incarnation (which explains man being made in God’s image) and that angels said, Why are you taking on the human nature so inferior to angelic nature ? And they are right on that score. But wrong on everything else.
He's not Mr Big Fat Baby | Nov 18, 2009
If God knew that Satan was going to rebel (Omniscience), why would he create him in the first place, risking billions of souls in hell after the existence of sin?
- | Nov 18, 2009
common good man, there is no Satan,if God existed and he was the most powerful being ,why would he have to have a satan to prove himself to a bunch of little insignificant humans like us?
scuba kitteh | Nov 18, 2009
I believe He had already rebelled before Adam and Eve.
christianman | Nov 18, 2009
I believe his fall was complete. He was just trying to corrupt everything else of Gods
steadfast | Nov 18, 2009
It started before he was cast out because there was the war in heaven. 1/3 of the hosts of heaven left with him.
scrabbleaims | Nov 18, 2009
Satan is obviously a metaphor for atheists and people who don’t believe what religious leaders tell them to believe. Religious man: "be subservient! Obey what I say! I speak for an invisible being!" Atheist: "I’ll be sceptical. I’ll choose to seek knowledge and fact over faith and blindness". Result: The thinker is chasised as evil, the non-thinker is praised for his obedience.
The adam and eve story and Noah are so clearly made up to try scare enpeople with an inclination to think independently that it should be a part of the dictator’s handbook on how to rule people.
Sisyphus | Nov 18, 2009
It really wasn’t that complicated. Satan reached his teenage years and, as all of them do, figured he knew everything. He eventually got tired of his Father harping on him about getting a job and moving out of the basement and knew against knowledge that his Father never understood that when he hit the big time with his band everything would be different.
HTacianas | Nov 18, 2009
First of all, Satan is the Adversary. There is more than one Satan. The person you are speaking of is Saint Lucifer.
Saint Lucifer was an angel, the Angel of Music. He was God’s right hand man. God went to him when he needed council, and he asked Lucifer for advice. When God created the humans, according to the Christian belief, he told the angels to bow down not to Him anymore, but to the humans. Lucifer, along with several other angels (Including Gabriel, who was spared by God but cursed as the Angel of Death), blatantly told God that he could basically suck it, and led a rebellion. God, of course, prevailed, and punished Lucifer by placing him in a dimension far below Earth, and punished the other Angels by distorting them and banishing them to the same vile place (Hell).
Joey | Nov 18, 2009
Lucifer was the most loved angel. He knew this. The love given to him slowly turned into self love, which turned into egotism, which turned into selfishness, which turned into rebellion. This is a side effect of free will.
tripageous | Nov 18, 2009
If you read the Apocrypha it does explain what happened that made Satan the way he became. Before God created us, he informed his angels of making us in his image. Well the devil wasn’t to please with that. God told him that he would put Adam over him and the other angels and that he must honor Adam. The devil didn’t want that. So God made him a deal, if he could name the animals by name, he would put him over Adam but if Adam could name the animals by name, the devil would have to honor him. The devil lost. He refuse to honor Adam.
Michael told Satanail that if did not honor Adam something was going to happen to him. That is when the devil decided, well I will just make my kingdom better than God. So God cast him out of heaven.
The bible doesn’t give all detail, but the Apocrypha does.
Gino | Nov 18, 2009
invest$$$ you talk bullshit!
God rules!@!@
Atheists suck!@
Lawliet | Nov 18, 2009
Isaiah 14:12 was about the King of Babylon and Ezekiel 28:13-15 was about the prince of Tyre.
Magilla | Nov 18, 2009
he was an archangel lucifer….with his free will he chose evil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer
aurora
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Roberto Merrill